Nice post. I particularly appreciate your reminding people of Turkle’s Alone Together, although I would say that the smart phone component – the second half of the book – is less interesting than the first half, which talks about computers as social actors, what we consider “alive,” and whether robotic social replacements are considered not so much good, but “good enough.” I keep returning to her insights and research and examples more than a decade later— and to the comment of the child considering whether there should be a robotic caregiver for the elderly, “don’t we have people for these jobs?”
Thanks Katie. I agree that the first half of the book is very insightful and relevant. This idea of computers as social actors is important and underappreciated. I had a conversation just last week about the robotic caregiver paradigm with some of my students. Feels like many similar points apply to the idea of robotic teachers.
It all gets to the heart of what it means to be human, the meaning of life, and the meaning of our work.
As I've been reading the reviews of Apple Vision Pro I have been struck by how much the discourse about generative AI has been pulling us into the world of language and cultural artifacts. This new product, and the hype accompanying it, is a reminder of the physical and sensory impacts of the new machines on offer. Appreciate your framing here and in the Innovation Bargain essay. And always glad to see fellow Berry fan pointing readers his way.
Thanks Rob. I think the natural entry point for these conversations around language and cultural artifacts is one of the most exciting things for me about these conversations. It feels more and more natural for the discussion to move in that direction and it's much more interesting than just talking about faster processors and fancier graphics, as if those were of value for their own sake.
And yes, Berry is so good! Always find his writing nourishing.
Excellent perception here … it seems like a struggle to have a real face to face conversation anymore. And I’ve got my phone in my hand all the time. I’m with you.
Thanks John. Agreed that the face-to-face conversations are getting much more challenging. Only going to get worse. Case in point, these two guys out to dinner sitting at the same table each totally in their own world. https://x.com/HumansNoContext/status/1755344908783636551?s=20
I appreciate the reminder about Wendell Berry's writing on technology. I feel similarly about Apple Vision Pro, so it's an easy "no thanks" for me. I think this applies to tech like ChatGPT as well, where there's a lot of energy around the idea that you have to integrate this tech into your daily work or you're "falling behind." I don't think we have any real evidence that this tech is progress of any kind, so how can we be so sure we're falling behind?
Berry is so good. I'm unsurprised to hear that you're in the same boat as me on the Vision Pro and think we are more or less aligned on ChatGPT too. I think there are places where both of these things might be useful, but they're pretty narrow use cases. It's the general "use this for everything" and "go here first" type of approach that worries me most. Pretty soon we're going to have engrained some bad habits.
Very important, as you note, to push back on the idea of "progress" and the corresponding fear of "falling behind." Progress toward what? We might be making progress, but what really matters is the end toward which we're moving closer. Much of the new technology around us today assumes the answer is yes. If we don't pay close attention, we'll end up drinking the Kool-Aid too.
Nice post. I particularly appreciate your reminding people of Turkle’s Alone Together, although I would say that the smart phone component – the second half of the book – is less interesting than the first half, which talks about computers as social actors, what we consider “alive,” and whether robotic social replacements are considered not so much good, but “good enough.” I keep returning to her insights and research and examples more than a decade later— and to the comment of the child considering whether there should be a robotic caregiver for the elderly, “don’t we have people for these jobs?”
Quite relevant to the current moment.
Thanks Katie. I agree that the first half of the book is very insightful and relevant. This idea of computers as social actors is important and underappreciated. I had a conversation just last week about the robotic caregiver paradigm with some of my students. Feels like many similar points apply to the idea of robotic teachers.
It all gets to the heart of what it means to be human, the meaning of life, and the meaning of our work.
Thank you bringing Wendell Berry to my attention! I’d like to think my newly launched substack explores themes similar to yours.
Thanks Aki. Berry is excellent and well worth your time.
I took a look through your Substack and enjoyed seeing what you’re building there. All the best as you think through and write about these ideas!
As I've been reading the reviews of Apple Vision Pro I have been struck by how much the discourse about generative AI has been pulling us into the world of language and cultural artifacts. This new product, and the hype accompanying it, is a reminder of the physical and sensory impacts of the new machines on offer. Appreciate your framing here and in the Innovation Bargain essay. And always glad to see fellow Berry fan pointing readers his way.
Thanks Rob. I think the natural entry point for these conversations around language and cultural artifacts is one of the most exciting things for me about these conversations. It feels more and more natural for the discussion to move in that direction and it's much more interesting than just talking about faster processors and fancier graphics, as if those were of value for their own sake.
And yes, Berry is so good! Always find his writing nourishing.
Excellent perception here … it seems like a struggle to have a real face to face conversation anymore. And I’ve got my phone in my hand all the time. I’m with you.
Thanks John. Agreed that the face-to-face conversations are getting much more challenging. Only going to get worse. Case in point, these two guys out to dinner sitting at the same table each totally in their own world. https://x.com/HumansNoContext/status/1755344908783636551?s=20
Oh my stars... that is ... I can't even come up with a word for it ... I don't even want to laugh at it. Sigh.
I appreciate the reminder about Wendell Berry's writing on technology. I feel similarly about Apple Vision Pro, so it's an easy "no thanks" for me. I think this applies to tech like ChatGPT as well, where there's a lot of energy around the idea that you have to integrate this tech into your daily work or you're "falling behind." I don't think we have any real evidence that this tech is progress of any kind, so how can we be so sure we're falling behind?
Berry is so good. I'm unsurprised to hear that you're in the same boat as me on the Vision Pro and think we are more or less aligned on ChatGPT too. I think there are places where both of these things might be useful, but they're pretty narrow use cases. It's the general "use this for everything" and "go here first" type of approach that worries me most. Pretty soon we're going to have engrained some bad habits.
Very important, as you note, to push back on the idea of "progress" and the corresponding fear of "falling behind." Progress toward what? We might be making progress, but what really matters is the end toward which we're moving closer. Much of the new technology around us today assumes the answer is yes. If we don't pay close attention, we'll end up drinking the Kool-Aid too.